Category: From AA Agnostica

Fifty Chosen Articles:
Number Thirty-Seven.
Originally posted in January 2018.

This article is written by two authors: Rand Teed, a Canadian Certified Addiction Counselor, and William L. White, with a Master’s Degree in Addiction Studies.

Want to know more about addiction and recovery? Read this article.

Without sobriety, I have zero quality of life. I became a liability to society. I now love myself and have compassion for others. I’m honest and dependable. I respect myself and am respected. I am a professional and love what I do for a living. I am loved by those closest to me. I trust myself.

From the Life in Recovery Report

By Rand Teed
Regina, Saskatchewan

People with active addictions have been marginalized and stigmatized for years and this has, for the most part, prevented them from actively celebrating their recovery, and there are millions of us in Canada (likely in the 5 million plus range). Most people are reluctant to talk about it. In recovery we privately celebrate each other’s successes, birthdays, anniversaries but these are not generally shared with the outside world.

The lack of attention on recovery from addiction has been changing for the better. Faces and Voices of Recovery Movements in the United States and Canada have started to bring more attention to honoring people who have moved from addiction into recovery. The documentary Anonymous People has also been instrumental in raising people’s awareness of the idea that recovery matters. It is interesting that, for the most part, the attention to these movements have been almost exclusively within the recovery community and not within our broader community.

Faces and Voices of Recovery Canada was able to convince the Canadian Centre on Substance Use and Addiction to begin to research the state and nature of recovery in Canada. This resulted in a summit bringing together individuals from across Canada representing recovery, treatment, continuing care, education, research and government to create a united vision for what recovery means in Canada. From that summit a group titled the National Recovery Advisory Committee embarked on a mission to try to evaluate what recovery looks like in this great country. We asked, and got almost 900 answers from a wide variety of people across the country.

It is important because it points out what is really important about recovery and that is that people get better and because they get better they start to contribute more to the rest of society. They also start to get better about who they are, that matters more. Recovery means we get back to our true selves. That is worth celebrating.

The survey findings were very interesting. As the resulting report, Life in Recovery from Addiction in Canada, puts it:

This survey provides a wealth of information about the experiences of individuals in recovery in Canada. For example, participants used on average six of 17 different recovery programs, as well as a number of informal supports during their recovery journey, supporting the view that recovery is unique to the individual and includes many different pathways.

The median age of first use was 13.5 years confirming that this is a pediatric onset disease and the majority of respondents felt they met criteria for addiction in their early 20’s. It is a disease that starts young and develops quickly. It is also a disease that works hard to convince us that it isn’t there.

The really interesting findings were what gets better. Employment, income, emotional health, physical health, family relationships, in short everything. Another interesting stat was the reason for initiating recovery, 69% indicated that quality of life reasons were primary for starting the recovery process and 83% said that was the reason for staying in recovery. Life gets better.

“Recovery capital” is the collection of resources and strengths your recovery has given you. Check yours; see what you have; and don’t be afraid to share with others what your recovery has done for you. There has been some controversy about breaking anonymity. That is not what this is about. This isn’t talking about what program you are in this is about talking about what is better because of choosing to be free from drugs, including alcohol. People know that cancer can be beaten because people talk about it and we then search for a cure for the disease. Let’s do some more talking about addiction and recovery.

What follows is an excellent summary of the Life in Recovery from Addiction in Canada report.

By Bill White
Originally posted on May 26, 2017 on Selected Papers of William L. White

A 2015 review of Life in Recovery surveys in the United States, the United Kingdom, and Australia highlighted 20 conclusions of these surveys and related epidemiologic studies on remission from substance use disorders. The profiled studies confirm substantial recovery prevalence within the general populations, the diversity of people in recovery, the diversity of pathways of recovery initiation and maintenance, and the substantial improvements in health and quality of life that accrue with time in recovery.

To read the full report, click on the above image.

The Canadian Centre on Substance Abuse has just released Life in Recovery from Addiction in Canada, confirming and amplifying many of the findings from the earlier studies. Here are a few highlights from this report.

Self-identified Canadians in Recovery report substantial past problem severity, with more than 70% having experienced each of six major diagnostic criteria for addiction.

Most began substance use by their mid-teens and reported onset of addiction between the ages of 15-25. The most frequently reported primary drug choices in order of prevalence were alcohol, cocaine, cannabis, heroin, prescription opioids, and methamphetamine.

Most (52.4%) Canadians in recovery define recovery in terms of abstinence (with a minority of less than 1% reporting controlled use) combined with enhancement of global health and functioning.

Canadians in addiction recovery report substantial gains in health, quality of life, and social functioning.

• 70.6% report overall quality of life as excellent, very good, or good.
• 80.0% report their physical health as excellent, very good, or good.
• In comparing addiction time to recovery time:
  • regular exercise increased from 16.5% to 68.7%
  • regular medical checkups increased from 33.7% to 82.8%
  • healthy eating habits increased from 14.5% to 82.1%
  • use of tobacco products decreased from 80.1% to 34.2%
• 84.3% report their mental health as excellent, very good, or good.
• 78.9% of Canadians in recovery are employed, 11.3% are retired or semi-retired, and 6.5% are students.
• Comparing addiction time to recovery time, reported arrests dropped from 42.3% to 2.3%; jail or prison time dropped from 13.9% to 1.4%; and driving under the influence dropped from 80.2% to 3.5%.

Canadians in recovery report substantial shifts in family and community involvement in comparing time in addiction and time in recovery.

• Participation in family activities increased from 31% to 90.3%
• Rates of reported family violence and lost custody of children all dropped precipitously following recovery initiation.
• Volunteering with a community or civic group increased from 14.4% to 66.8%
• Rates of paying bills, paying current and back taxes, all substantially increased after recovery initiation.

Canadians in recovery report using a wide variety of resources to help initiate and maintain their recovery, including 12-Step mutual support groups, professionally-directed addiction treatment, psychiatric or psychological therapy, recovery housing, non-12 Step mutual support groups, and medication-assisted treatment. More than 50% of respondents also reported using such supports as family and friends, religious or meditative practices, reading recovery literature, pets, exercise, nutrition, recovery websites or social media, and cultural values and traditions.

A significant portion of Canadians in recovery report current use of a prescription drug to treat a co-occurring physical (37.2%) or mental (35.2%) condition, but only 1.8% report current use of a medication for the management of addiction. 20.2% of survey respondents report having used medication-assisted treatment to help initiate their recovery.

More than half (51.2%) of Canadians in recovery report no subsequent experience of relapse following recovery initiation.

More than half (53.4%) of Canadians in recovery report more than five years of time in recovery, with 20.7% reporting more than 20 years in recovery from addiction.

The Life in Recovery from Addiction in Canada report is the latest investigation confirming the possibility of sustained recovery from addiction through a diversity of recovery pathways. It affirms the value of communities creating the physical, psychological, and social space within which personal/family recovery from addictions can flourish.

Once again, the full report is available here: Life in Recovery from Addiction in Canada.

Rand Teed B.A, B.Ed, ICPS, CCAC is a person in long-term recovery, having been free from alcohol and other drugs since March 26, 1972.

Bill White has a Master’s degree in Addiction Studies and has worked full time in the addictions field since 1969 as a streetworker, counselor, clinical director, researcher and well-traveled trainer and consultant. He has authored or co-authored more than 400 articles, monographs, research reports and book chapters and 20 books.

His book, Slaying the Dragon – The History of Addiction Treatment and Recovery in America, received the McGovern Family Foundation Award for the best book on addiction recovery.

He has recently published a memoir, Recovery Rising: A Retrospective of Addiction Treatment and Recovery Advocacy.

Bill’s website, Selected Papers of William L. White, “contains the full text of more than 300 articles, 8 monographs, 30+ recovery tools, 9 book chapters, 3 books, and links to an additional 22 books written by William White and co-authors over the past four decades as well as more than 100 interviews with addiction treatment and recovery leaders.”

The site is well worth a visit and you can do that by clicking here: Selected Papers.

For a PDF of this article, click here: Life in Recovery from Addiction in Canada.

The post Life in Recovery from Addiction in Canada first appeared on AA Agnostica.

Fifty Chosen Articles:
Number Thirty-Six.
Originally posted in April 2017.

The struggle with “traditional” AA.

By Roger C

I went to my first AA meeting when I was in rehab back in 2010. It was a speaker meeting and there was a fellow on stage who talked about how he owed his sobriety to “the Guy in the sky”.

I thought, “Are you kidding me?” But, of course he wasn’t. I was soon to discover that there was a lot of God talk at AA meetings. That is the first thing that bothers we agnostics and atheists in AA.

I should say that I am not speaking for all agnostics and atheists in AA. Nobody can do that. But as the editor of the website AA Agnostica and having been heavily involved in secular AA meetings, I am in contact with many agnostic members and know that many of them feel and react much the same as I do.

But back to the God talk: the God that is talked about at meetings is often a Christian God, an anthropomorphic (created in man’s image – “Father”, “He” or “Him”) and interventionist (who can solve a problem with alcohol “if He were sought”) supernatural being.

That doesn’t work for me or other atheist alcoholics.

Most of us believe that what works in AA to keep us sober are two things: first, tapping an “inner resource” (see Appendix II of the Big Book) that makes us strive to be sober, and better, human beings. And, second, the fellowship. Going to an AA meeting and talking with others who understand the problem of alcoholism is a wonderful form of group therapy. The support of others (Step 12) plays a key part in our recovery, according to our more secular AA members, not a God.

The God talk might even be tolerable except for one thing and that is our second problem: we agnostics in AA are often not allowed to be honest at “traditional” AA meetings and even suggest that we personally don’t believe in this God. There is apparently an unofficial policy in Alcoholics Anonymous for non-believers at AA meetings that might well be called: “Don’t Tell”.

And if you do talk about your lack of belief, you will often be subjected to a rebuttal, or an outright attack. It is one place at an AA meeting where crosstalk will sometimes happen. Or you will be confronted after the meeting. When that first happened to me I was stunned. You see, I have a Masters degree and spent years at McGill University working on my doctorate in Religious Studies. I taught ordinands (women and men studying to be church ministers). I was the “resident atheist” at the Faculty of Religious Studies and was treated with genuine respect. Not so much in AA. Many agnostics and atheists are treated with disrespect in AA, if not outright contempt.

That’s a real problem.

And the last, the third problem, that many of us experience in AA are meetings that end with the Lord’s Prayer. To say that AA is “spiritual not religious” and then recite the Lord’s Prayer, well, that just doesn’t wash. The Lord’s Prayer is found in the New Testament in the Gospel of Matthew (6:5-13) with a shorter version in the Gospel of Luke (11:1-4). It was said to have been taught by Jesus to his disciples and is considered the essential summary of the gospels, of the religion of Christianity.

Because it discriminates against those with other beliefs or with no religious beliefs at all, the Lord’s Prayer was eliminated from public schools by the Supreme Court in the United States in 1962. And in 1988, the Ontario Court of Appeal ruled that the “recitation of the Lord’s Prayer, which is a Christian prayer… impose(s) Christian observances upon non-Christian pupils and religious observances on non-believers” and thus constitutes a violation of the freedom of conscience and religion provisions in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. That was the end of the Lord’s Prayer in public schools in Canada.

Agnostics and atheists believe that the Lord’s Prayer does not belong at AA meetings. It’s fine at a religious church meeting but to say that AA is “spiritual but not religious” and then end a meeting with the Lord’s Prayer is a real contradiction.

After getting out of rehab, I went to a lot of AA meetings. And it got to the point where I just couldn’t stand them. Too much of the “God bit”. I realized I could no longer go to them and I was terrified I would start drinking again.

But, almost accidentally, I went one Saturday to my first ever agnostic AA meeting: Beyond Belief, in Toronto. It was, for me, a superb meeting.

When I got out I threw my hands up in the air and I shouted, “I’m saved!”

I have been going to secular AA meetings ever since. There was only that one meeting for non-believers in AA in Canada in the summer of 2010, when I went to Beyond Belief. Today there are more than twenty-five in five provinces. These secular meetings are now growing with great momentum.

These secular AA meetings – without any doubt at all – have been the main source of my sobriety. I know and feel that “I am not alone” and that I am free to express any doubts or disbeliefs I may have and that I can be totally honest.

For me, as for many other agnostics in AA, it’s the fellowship that makes the difference. It’s the frequent “remember when” stories that help to keep me from going back. It’s learning so much from others about how they are able to deal with their alcoholism and to maintain their sobriety, truly, “one day at a time”. It’s the understanding, caring and support of the people at these AA meetings. Back in rehab, and in my early days and months of recovery, the word “gratitude” meant nothing to me at all.

Today I experience it every single day.

AA is meant to be here for all who reach out for help. We are a “kinship of universal suffering” as Bill Wilson put it and we need to let everyone who attends an AA meeting know and feel that they are welcome, regardless of belief or lack of belief.

This is Chapter One of the book A History of Agnostics in AA which can be purchased at Amazon US.

It is also available at Amazon Canada and at Amazon United Kingdom.

For more information about the book, click here: Review: A History of Agnostics in AA.

For a PDF of this article, click here: An Agnostic in AA.

The post An Agnostic in AA first appeared on AA Agnostica.

Fifty Chosen Articles:
Number Thirty-Six.
Originally posted in April 2017.

The struggle with “traditional” AA.

By Roger C

I went to my first AA meeting when I was in rehab back in 2010. It was a speaker meeting and there was a fellow on stage who talked about how he owed his sobriety to “the Guy in the sky”.

I thought, “Are you kidding me?” But, of course he wasn’t. I was soon to discover that there was a lot of God talk at AA meetings. That is the first thing that bothers we agnostics and atheists in AA.

I should say that I am not speaking for all agnostics and atheists in AA. Nobody can do that. But as the editor of the website AA Agnostica and having been heavily involved in secular AA meetings, I am in contact with many agnostic members and know that many of them feel and react much the same as I do.

But back to the God talk: the God that is talked about at meetings is often a Christian God, an anthropomorphic (created in man’s image – “Father”, “He” or “Him”) and interventionist (who can solve a problem with alcohol “if He were sought”) supernatural being.

That doesn’t work for me or other atheist alcoholics.

Most of us believe that what works in AA to keep us sober are two things: first, tapping an “inner resource” (see Appendix II of the Big Book) that makes us strive to be sober, and better, human beings. And, second, the fellowship. Going to an AA meeting and talking with others who understand the problem of alcoholism is a wonderful form of group therapy. The support of others (Step 12) plays a key part in our recovery, according to our more secular AA members, not a God.

The God talk might even be tolerable except for one thing and that is our second problem: we agnostics in AA are often not allowed to be honest at “traditional” AA meetings and even suggest that we personally don’t believe in this God. There is apparently an unofficial policy in Alcoholics Anonymous for non-believers at AA meetings that might well be called: “Don’t Tell”.

And if you do talk about your lack of belief, you will often be subjected to a rebuttal, or an outright attack. It is one place at an AA meeting where crosstalk will sometimes happen. Or you will be confronted after the meeting. When that first happened to me I was stunned. You see, I have a Masters degree and spent years at McGill University working on my doctorate in Religious Studies. I taught ordinands (women and men studying to be church ministers). I was the “resident atheist” at the Faculty of Religious Studies and was treated with genuine respect. Not so much in AA. Many agnostics and atheists are treated with disrespect in AA, if not outright contempt.

That’s a real problem.

And the last, the third problem, that many of us experience in AA are meetings that end with the Lord’s Prayer. To say that AA is “spiritual not religious” and then recite the Lord’s Prayer, well, that just doesn’t wash. The Lord’s Prayer is found in the New Testament in the Gospel of Matthew (6:5-13) with a shorter version in the Gospel of Luke (11:1-4). It was said to have been taught by Jesus to his disciples and is considered the essential summary of the gospels, of the religion of Christianity.

Because it discriminates against those with other beliefs or with no religious beliefs at all, the Lord’s Prayer was eliminated from public schools by the Supreme Court in the United States in 1962. And in 1988, the Ontario Court of Appeal ruled that the “recitation of the Lord’s Prayer, which is a Christian prayer… impose(s) Christian observances upon non-Christian pupils and religious observances on non-believers” and thus constitutes a violation of the freedom of conscience and religion provisions in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. That was the end of the Lord’s Prayer in public schools in Canada.

Agnostics and atheists believe that the Lord’s Prayer does not belong at AA meetings. It’s fine at a religious church meeting but to say that AA is “spiritual but not religious” and then end a meeting with the Lord’s Prayer is a real contradiction.

After getting out of rehab, I went to a lot of AA meetings. And it got to the point where I just couldn’t stand them. Too much of the “God bit”. I realized I could no longer go to them and I was terrified I would start drinking again.

But, almost accidentally, I went one Saturday to my first ever agnostic AA meeting: Beyond Belief, in Toronto. It was, for me, a superb meeting.

When I got out I threw my hands up in the air and I shouted, “I’m saved!”

I have been going to secular AA meetings ever since. There was only that one meeting for non-believers in AA in Canada in the summer of 2010, when I went to Beyond Belief. Today there are more than twenty-five in five provinces. These secular meetings are now growing with great momentum.

These secular AA meetings – without any doubt at all – have been the main source of my sobriety. I know and feel that “I am not alone” and that I am free to express any doubts or disbeliefs I may have and that I can be totally honest.

For me, as for many other agnostics in AA, it’s the fellowship that makes the difference. It’s the frequent “remember when” stories that help to keep me from going back. It’s learning so much from others about how they are able to deal with their alcoholism and to maintain their sobriety, truly, “one day at a time”. It’s the understanding, caring and support of the people at these AA meetings. Back in rehab, and in my early days and months of recovery, the word “gratitude” meant nothing to me at all.

Today I experience it every single day.

AA is meant to be here for all who reach out for help. We are a “kinship of universal suffering” as Bill Wilson put it and we need to let everyone who attends an AA meeting know and feel that they are welcome, regardless of belief or lack of belief.

This is Chapter One of the book A History of Agnostics in AA which can be purchased at Amazon US.

It is also available at Amazon Canada and at Amazon United Kingdom.

For more information about the book, click here: Review: A History of Agnostics in AA.

For a PDF of this article, click here: An Agnostic in AA.

The post An Agnostic in AA first appeared on AA Agnostica.

Fifty Chosen Articles:
Number Thirty-Five.
Originally posted in March 2017.

In January of 2017 secular AA groups booted out by the Greater Toronto Area Intergroup were invited back in by the Intergroup.

This candid history of one of the booted out groups, written by one of its founders, Joe C,  was published in the very next Intergroup Newsletter, Better Times.

By Joe C

Thursday, September 24th, 2009 at 6:30 PM, the first meeting of Beyond Belief Agnostics and Freethinkers Group took place at the University of Toronto. There are now 14 GTA meetings “without a prayer”. I’m a regular around the AA History Lovers clan and periodically, I write and speak about our collective history. Eddy G from Toronto archives was excited to show me a late 1990s meeting list with a We Agnostics Group on Danforth, in District 22. So, if any East-enders remember We Agnostics, I’d love to hear from you.

At the turn of the century, I found an active group of AA atheists / agnostics form around the world, online. I found an international website of agnostic / atheists AA groups that included New York City. “Great,” I decided, “Next New York trip, I’m going.” I told some of my homegroup friends. I got to a couple of New York agnostic groups and I couldn’t wait to help start a Toronto group with my fellow AAs.

Many agnostic groups had web pages with meeting scripts and readings. Living Sober is a popular reading. We adopted this popular opening:

AA agnostic meetings endeavour to maintain a tradition of free expression, and conduct a meeting where alcoholics feel free to express any doubts or disbelief they may have, and to share their own personal form of spiritual experience, their search for it, or their rejection of it. In keeping with AA tradition, we do not endorse or oppose any form of religion or atheism. Our only wish is to ensure suffering alcoholics that they can find sobriety in AA without having to accept anyone else’s beliefs, or having to deny their own.

There was no praying; some groups recited the Responsibility Declaration or “Live and Let Live” and some just close with “Our next meeting is ___ ; who’s going for coffee?”

Click on the image above to view this article as posted in the February issue of the GTA Intergroup Newsletter.

A lot of the early Toronto members came from Midtown, Stepping Stones and other groups in the Annex. Alcoholics from Ajax to Mississauga joined us. A lot of long-timers talk about AA recovery, not fitting their beliefs into G.O.D. acronyms or start every share with, “I don’t mean to offend anyone but…”

There are those newcomers who tried faking it and repeatedly not made it but have now found sobriety in our gathering of mostly nonbelievers. Some AAs never have the experience of a prayer-answering, sobriety-granting higher power. At Beyond Belief, we just share from our heart, unabashedly.

There are 400 secular AA meetings around the world. From 2009 to 2017, we went from zero to over 24 Canadian meetings for atheists / agnostics.

The International Conference of Secular AA is coming to downtown Toronto, in 2018. Many of us are busy with our first local gathering called SOAAR (Secular Ontario AA Roundup) September 16, 2017.

AA History isn’t something that happened “way back when”. AA evolves before our eyes. It’s an exciting time to be sober in Toronto AA.

Joe C was one of the founders of the Toronto group and meeting, Beyond Belief Agnostic and Freethinkers Group, Canada’s longest running secular AA meeting. He is also the creator and manager of a secular AA website, Rebellion Dogs Publishing.

Joe is the author the ever-popular book Beyond Belief: Agnostic Musings for 12 Step Life. This is a book of daily reflections that is often read at the beginning of secular AA meetings.

Joe has written a total of 22 articles published on AA Agnostica:

• Pathways to Recovery and Desistance (January 17, 2021)
• The Growth Rate of Secular AA (May 29, 2019)
• Recovery Capital Conference of Canada (September (September 30, 2018)
• International Conference of Secular AA – Toronto (June 24, 2018)
• Daily Reprieve: A.A. for Atheists & Agnostics – Review (January 25, 2018)
• Each Breath A Gift (June 21, 2017)
• Beyond Belief Agnostics and Freethinkers (March 09, 2017)
• No God? No Problem: Atheism in AA as a Human Right – Jesse Beach (March 02, 2017)
• AA Membership: Growth or Decline (September 06, 2015)
• A Changing Landscape (May 13, 2015)
• Living with Lillian (February 11, 2015)
• Letting Go of God (October 26, 2014)
• Together We Can (August 31, 2014)
• A Reverend at the Agnostic AA Convention (April 13, 2014)
• Is listability the new AA? (January 19, 2014)
• Six Shades of Nonbelievers (August 11, 2013)
• Pharisees and Recalcitrants (August 26, 2012)
• Quadrants of Knowledge (June 24, 2012)
• Never Fear Needed Change (June 3, 2012)
• The Silver Tongued Devil and I (February 25, 2012)
• Let the Wood Burn (December 13, 2011)
• AA Public Information: “Let it Begin With Me” (July 24, 2011)

For the record, Joe’s first article was the fourth ever posted on AA Agnostica.

For a PDF of this article, click here: Beyond Belief Agnostics and Freethinkers.

The post Beyond Belief Agnostics and Freethinkers first appeared on AA Agnostica.

Fifty Chosen Articles:
Number Thirty-Five.
Originally posted in March 2017.

In January of 2017 secular AA groups booted out by the Greater Toronto Area Intergroup were invited back in by the Intergroup.

This candid history of one of the booted out groups, written by one of its founders, Joe C,  was published in the very next Intergroup Newsletter, Better Times.

By Joe C

Thursday, September 24th, 2009 at 6:30 PM, the first meeting of Beyond Belief Agnostics and Freethinkers Group took place at the University of Toronto. There are now 14 GTA meetings “without a prayer”. I’m a regular around the AA History Lovers clan and periodically, I write and speak about our collective history. Eddy G from Toronto archives was excited to show me a late 1990s meeting list with a We Agnostics Group on Danforth, in District 22. So, if any East-enders remember We Agnostics, I’d love to hear from you.

At the turn of the century, I found an active group of AA atheists / agnostics form around the world, online. I found an international website of agnostic / atheists AA groups that included New York City. “Great,” I decided, “Next New York trip, I’m going.” I told some of my homegroup friends. I got to a couple of New York agnostic groups and I couldn’t wait to help start a Toronto group with my fellow AAs.

Many agnostic groups had web pages with meeting scripts and readings. Living Sober is a popular reading. We adopted this popular opening:

AA agnostic meetings endeavour to maintain a tradition of free expression, and conduct a meeting where alcoholics feel free to express any doubts or disbelief they may have, and to share their own personal form of spiritual experience, their search for it, or their rejection of it. In keeping with AA tradition, we do not endorse or oppose any form of religion or atheism. Our only wish is to ensure suffering alcoholics that they can find sobriety in AA without having to accept anyone else’s beliefs, or having to deny their own.

There was no praying; some groups recited the Responsibility Declaration or “Live and Let Live” and some just close with “Our next meeting is ___ ; who’s going for coffee?”

Click on the image above to view this article as posted in the February issue of the GTA Intergroup Newsletter.

A lot of the early Toronto members came from Midtown, Stepping Stones and other groups in the Annex. Alcoholics from Ajax to Mississauga joined us. A lot of long-timers talk about AA recovery, not fitting their beliefs into G.O.D. acronyms or start every share with, “I don’t mean to offend anyone but…”

There are those newcomers who tried faking it and repeatedly not made it but have now found sobriety in our gathering of mostly nonbelievers. Some AAs never have the experience of a prayer-answering, sobriety-granting higher power. At Beyond Belief, we just share from our heart, unabashedly.

There are 400 secular AA meetings around the world. From 2009 to 2017, we went from zero to over 24 Canadian meetings for atheists / agnostics.

The International Conference of Secular AA is coming to downtown Toronto, in 2018. Many of us are busy with our first local gathering called SOAAR (Secular Ontario AA Roundup) September 16, 2017.

AA History isn’t something that happened “way back when”. AA evolves before our eyes. It’s an exciting time to be sober in Toronto AA.

Joe C was one of the founders of the Toronto group and meeting, Beyond Belief Agnostic and Freethinkers Group, Canada’s longest running secular AA meeting. He is also the creator and manager of a secular AA website, Rebellion Dogs Publishing.

Joe is the author the ever-popular book Beyond Belief: Agnostic Musings for 12 Step Life. This is a book of daily reflections that is often read at the beginning of secular AA meetings.

Joe has written a total of 22 articles published on AA Agnostica:

• Pathways to Recovery and Desistance (January 17, 2021)
• The Growth Rate of Secular AA (May 29, 2019)
• Recovery Capital Conference of Canada (September (September 30, 2018)
• International Conference of Secular AA – Toronto (June 24, 2018)
• Daily Reprieve: A.A. for Atheists & Agnostics – Review (January 25, 2018)
• Each Breath A Gift (June 21, 2017)
• Beyond Belief Agnostics and Freethinkers (March 09, 2017)
• No God? No Problem: Atheism in AA as a Human Right – Jesse Beach (March 02, 2017)
• AA Membership: Growth or Decline (September 06, 2015)
• A Changing Landscape (May 13, 2015)
• Living with Lillian (February 11, 2015)
• Letting Go of God (October 26, 2014)
• Together We Can (August 31, 2014)
• A Reverend at the Agnostic AA Convention (April 13, 2014)
• Is listability the new AA? (January 19, 2014)
• Six Shades of Nonbelievers (August 11, 2013)
• Pharisees and Recalcitrants (August 26, 2012)
• Quadrants of Knowledge (June 24, 2012)
• Never Fear Needed Change (June 3, 2012)
• The Silver Tongued Devil and I (February 25, 2012)
• Let the Wood Burn (December 13, 2011)
• AA Public Information: “Let it Begin With Me” (July 24, 2011)

For the record, Joe’s first article was the fourth ever posted on AA Agnostica.

For a PDF of this article, click here: Beyond Belief Agnostics and Freethinkers.

The post Beyond Belief Agnostics and Freethinkers first appeared on AA Agnostica.

Fifty Chosen Articles:
Number Thirty-Four.
Originally posted in February 2017.

This website – AA Agnostica – was launched when two secular AA groups were booted out of the Greater Toronto Area Intergroup.

It took years for the groups to be allowed back in. That’s when this article was written.

By Roger C.

It’s over.

After a scorching battle that lasted almost six years, agnostic groups will once again be listed on the Greater Toronto Area AA meeting list and be recognized as full, participating members of the GTA Intergroup. And we can interpret and share our own non-godly versions of the Steps, if and as we wish.

As it was put by an Intergroup representative (Mark C from the Welcome Group) at its meeting on Tuesday, January 31: “There is no policing in AA”.

(Ironic, because four self-appointed AA cops showed up at a Widening Our Gateway meeting on a Sunday in late November 2011 and, sure enough, they concluded that there was evidence of “tampered steps”. The group was subsequently booted out of the GTA Intergroup.)

Intergroup had no choice but to yield, really.

As announced in its Quarterly Report (October 2016), the AA General Service Office was planning to cut off its ties with the Greater Toronto Area Intergroup (GTAI):

A motion was made that A.A.W.S, Inc. remove all database directory listings of the Greater Toronto Area Intergroup based on their response to the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal that they are a religious organization. The motion was adopted unanimously by the A.A.W.S. board.

Let me explain.

Click on the image to read about the Human Rights Code “which continues to make Ontario a more just, equitable and inclusive society”.

Larry K, a member of the We Agnostics group, one of the two agnostic groups booted out by the GTAI way back in May 2011, launched a complaint against Intergroup with the Ontario Human Rights Tribunal on September 18, 2014. He claimed that he and the groups, which had their own secular versions of the 12 Steps, were being discriminated against based on religious creed.

The Tribunal indeed views that as a form of discrimination, as stated in its Code:

Every person has the right to be free from discriminatory or harassing behaviour that is based on religion or which arises because the person who is the target of the behaviour does not share the same faith. This principle extends to situations where the person who is the target of such behaviour has no religious beliefs whatsoever, including atheists and agnostics who may, in these circumstances, benefit from the protection set out in the Code.

Two hearings were held (October 22, 2015 and January 13, 2016) and the position of the GTAI was as follows, as reported by the the Tribunal:

The respondent, GTAI, submits that the Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) recovery program follows 12 steps and that these steps involve a belief in God. GTAI submits that evidence indicates that its purpose is to practice the 12 steps and practice a belief in God. In order to be part of GTAI, a group must be prepared to practice the 12 steps and thus the members of the group must have a belief in God… GTAI also submits that it is a bona fide requirement that groups that wish to be part of this intergroup must have a belief in the higher power of God.

You see, the only time you can legitimately ban non-believers, according to the Human Rights Code is if, well, you are a religious organization. That is permitted by Section 18 of the Code where an organization identifies itself as a “special interest organization”. In this case, a religious organization.

Well, you can imagine where this is going.

The GSO’s decision to “de-list” the Greater Intergroup came just before two mediation sessions between Larry and the GTAI, held on November 18, 2016 and January 18, 2017. The Tribunal asks every person who files a human rights application (the Applicant) and every person or organization responding to a human rights application (the Respondent(s)) to participate in mediation in order to attempt to reach a settlement, that is, to resolve the issues raised in the application without going to a formal hearing.

And that’s where the GTAI yielded to the GSO. And yielded to agnostics in AA. In the settlement document, the Greater Toronto Area Intergroup does a complete about-face and acknowledges that a group can be recognized as a participating group in the GTA Intergroup “regardless of the specific beliefs or practices of the group members or the group as a whole”.

The GTAI released a report at its monthly meeting on January 31, 2017, a meeting I attended.

While the GTAI maintains that an AA group needs to “acknowledge” or “adopt” the 12 Steps, 12 Traditions and 12 Concepts of AA, acknowledgement is not a problem. It is simply history. The reading of the secular 12 Steps at Beyond Belief has always been preceded with the statement, “This version is adapted from the original 12 Steps which were first published in 1939 in Chapter 5 of Alcoholic Anonymous.”

Nothing has changed or will. That’s just history.

In a full concession to we agnostics in AA, and our rights within the fellowship, the report goes on to state:

GTA Intergroup acknowledges that the manner in which individual AA members or groups of AA members interpret and apply the Steps and Traditions in their own lives is a matter for those individuals alone.

Those words are the very essence of what the GTAI had to do to achieve a Human Rights Tribunal settlement.

Still, the GTAI fails to understand its own failings and the damage it has done to alcoholics and to the fellowship. One of the paragraphs in its report is particularly bizarre: “It has been, and remains, the GTAI’s position that there has been no discrimination against the complainant, or indeed anyone else, let alone on the prohibited ground of creed”.

Get real.

The GTAI booted groups out – Beyond Belief and We Agnostics on May 31, 2011 and Widening Our Gateway on April 24, 2012 – simply because the groups don’t buy the idea that God is the source of their sobriety. That’s not discrimination against the complainant? Or anyone else? That’s not discrimination based upon the prohibited ground of creed?

What is it then?

The GTAI does however concede that when Larry first went to them to express his concerns, “the response to those concerns was not as constructive as it could have been”.

No, really? I mean, it only took five years. And legal action. And a threat from the GSO.

It makes one wonder whether the GTAI is aware of and/or respects Tradition Three (“The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking”).

Ultimately, Intergroup had little choice but to yield to we agnostics in AA.

It had to put aside its religious dogmatism and recognize, if only reluctantly and certainly not wholeheartedly, that the way “individual AA members or groups of AA members interpret and apply the Steps and Traditions in their own lives is a matter for those individuals alone”.

That is AA. Or AA as it was meant to be, before and after the behaviour that the GTAI displayed because a few had the gall to ignore its dogmatic my way or the highway approach to recovery in AA. “All people must necessarily rally to the call of their own particular convictions and we of AA are no exception.” Bill Wilson said that. He was right.

Let us end this article with something that needs to be said, and I am very happy to say it, and share it.

Thank you Larry!

We can only imagine what you have gone through over the past five years. But you rather heroically did the right thing. Your work is without a doubt important for we agnostics in AA. And it is without a doubt crucial for AA, if it is to move forward.

On February 9, The Fix published an article on this subject. You can read it here: Toronto AA Intergroup Finally Lets Agnostics, Atheists Back In.

For a PDF of this article, click here: Toronto Intergroup Yields to Agnostics in AA.

The post Toronto Intergroup Yields to Agnostics in AA first appeared on AA Agnostica.

Fifty Chosen Articles:
Number Thirty-One.
Originally posted in May 2016.

Denis started the first agnostic AA meeting in the city of Vancouver.

By Dan V.

Today I write with a heavy heart and with great sadness about a man whose name is Denis Kilborn.

On April 1, 2016, he passed away from cancer complications.

His sobriety date was April 28, 1975. He was introduced to AA in Toronto, Ontario, and it was there that he met his first sponsor, Jack. It was Jack who told Denis you don’t do steps, you live them, which he followed for the rest of his life.

In his 41 years in AA he helped countless numbers of people, as a sponsor and as a friend. AA was his life – he was always working with newcomers – and the life of his family.

His wife’s parents – her father, Bud, was Denis’ sponsor when he moved to the west coast and that, of course, is how he met his wife – were both alcoholics and had over 50 years each of sobriety in AA.

He had three children; two daughters and a son. His son James was in the program as both an alcoholic and addict, and spent a great deal of time in treatment, until his death on September 26, 2013 at the young age of 23 as a result of a drug overdose.

Denis was not only my sponsor for 32 years but also my trusted friend.

I first met him on February 14, 1984. On Valentine’s Day. At the time he was doing a tremendous amount of 12 Step work, had lots of different sponsees and was very, very active in taking the message to people. On that day Denis became my sponsor and was not only my sponsor for 32 years, but also very much a trusted friend. He always referred to me as his Valentine’s Day present.

I’ve only had one sponsor in all my time in recovery, and he’s the guy.

AA was a simple program for Denis.

Except…

Twenty five years in sobriety, in the year 2000, Denis checked himself into a treatment centre. It was there that he found answers to some burning questions that had tormented him throughout his recovery process.

It had everything to do with his belief system. He had faked it for so long in AA and could no longer handle the internal struggles as a result. “What do I believe? What don’t I believe?” were the questions on the table in that period of treatment.

And that’s where he started verbalizing his lack of belief in God.

Now he had this new-found idea that you actually can get sober and maintain sobriety at a level that is conducive to a good life without a God. Well, this is going against everything that he had heard over the last twenty-five years. His big question then was, “Who do I share that with?”

It was then that a decision was made to help widen the path of AA for all who suffer.

Denis started the first agnostic AA meeting in the city of Vancouver.

The meeting sort of morphed into an agnostic meeting. It began as a Step meeting that attracted a number of guys who were like-minded and at one point they all realized, “Wow, we are all agnostics and atheists!” There wasn’t a god-believing person in the room.

At this time Denis read about the agnostic groups in Toronto being booted out of Intergroup (you can read that here: Fight Over God Splits Toronto AA Groups) and he decided, along with the group, that this is where they were going to make their stand, this would be their “Waterloo”. So Denis registered the meeting with Vancouver Intergroup as “We Agnostics”.

He also helped start a Tuesday night meeting called “Sober Agnostics”. Its founding meeting was on May 7, 2013, and it is still going strong.

It too was registered with Central Office and on the Vancouver AA meeting list.

But that’s when the problem arose in Vancouver. The groups were not only originally accepted but they were welcomed. The person at Central Office said “Fantastic! It’s time we had one of these meetings in Vancouver”, and then a short time later that individual was let go or fired and then the meetings were stricken from the list.

This did not go well with some people. I personally wanted to lash out, however, Denis calmly stood his ground and as a result of that agnostic AA is flourishing in Vancouver today, thanks to our elder statesman. Denis was the poster child of agnostic AA in Vancouver.

When he found AA Agnostica it was like, “Wow, there is the family I have been looking for. We were lost and now we have found each other…” The wonderful articles. The great comments.

About two years ago Denis was told that a shadow was seen on his lungs. After many tests and doctor appointments, two months ago he was told he had stage 4 lung cancer. With treatment he should live a little over a year.

Never one to duck the challenge, he simply said “it is what it is”, “let’s fight this to the end”, and with good humor and integrity he marched forward.

On April 1/16 he awoke like any other day, drove to his favorite coffee shop to meet with his friends. Feeling a bit funny he decided to go home to lie down and rest, and that is where he died three hours later.

On a personal note, Denis and I spoke the same language. It is the language of someone who has been where you are. It is in the eyes, the eyes of a true friend and confidant. Without words so much is said.

It is in the silence that I heard his voice, “don’t drink and go to meetings”, which is still working today, some 32 years later.

Thank you Denis, you helped me save my life and the life of my family. I will forever be grateful.

Your friend,
Dan V.

Roger’s Footnote: Denis and I were great pals. We talked on the phone at least once a week. If he were in Toronto, we would get together at a meeting and for dinner. We were both in Santa Monica for the convention. In January, he used his points to cover the cost of my flight to Vancouver so that he, Dan and I could go down to Olympia, Washington, together for the Widening Our Gateway agnostic AA conference. What a great time the three of us had together.

It was on the way to Olympia that we stopped at one of his favourite diners, the Argo Cafe, and that’s where I took the above photo of Denis.

Denis was determined to live each and every remaining day as fully as possible, one day and one moment at time. Sounds like something he might have learned in AA. Another friend of his, Mike D, phoned me the day he died. He reported that Denis had told him that the previous day had been one of the best days of his life. I am overwhelmed by sadness every time I think of Denis, but that thought makes me smile, makes me happy.

For a PDF of this article, click here: In Memory of Denis.

The post In Memory of Denis first appeared on AA Agnostica.

Fifty Chosen Articles:
Number Thirty-One.
Originally posted in May 2016.

Denis started the first agnostic AA meeting in the city of Vancouver.

By Dan V.

Today I write with a heavy heart and with great sadness about a man whose name is Denis Kilborn.

On April 1, 2016, he passed away from cancer complications.

His sobriety date was April 28, 1975. He was introduced to AA in Toronto, Ontario, and it was there that he met his first sponsor, Jack. It was Jack who told Denis you don’t do steps, you live them, which he followed for the rest of his life.

In his 41 years in AA he helped countless numbers of people, as a sponsor and as a friend. AA was his life – he was always working with newcomers – and the life of his family.

His wife’s parents – her father, Bud, was Denis’ sponsor when he moved to the west coast and that, of course, is how he met his wife – were both alcoholics and had over 50 years each of sobriety in AA.

He had three children; two daughters and a son. His son James was in the program as both an alcoholic and addict, and spent a great deal of time in treatment, until his death on September 26, 2013 at the young age of 23 as a result of a drug overdose.

Denis was not only my sponsor for 32 years but also my trusted friend.

I first met him on February 14, 1984. On Valentine’s Day. At the time he was doing a tremendous amount of 12 Step work, had lots of different sponsees and was very, very active in taking the message to people. On that day Denis became my sponsor and was not only my sponsor for 32 years, but also very much a trusted friend. He always referred to me as his Valentine’s Day present.

I’ve only had one sponsor in all my time in recovery, and he’s the guy.

AA was a simple program for Denis.

Except…

Twenty five years in sobriety, in the year 2000, Denis checked himself into a treatment centre. It was there that he found answers to some burning questions that had tormented him throughout his recovery process.

It had everything to do with his belief system. He had faked it for so long in AA and could no longer handle the internal struggles as a result. “What do I believe? What don’t I believe?” were the questions on the table in that period of treatment.

And that’s where he started verbalizing his lack of belief in God.

Now he had this new-found idea that you actually can get sober and maintain sobriety at a level that is conducive to a good life without a God. Well, this is going against everything that he had heard over the last twenty-five years. His big question then was, “Who do I share that with?”

It was then that a decision was made to help widen the path of AA for all who suffer.

Denis started the first agnostic AA meeting in the city of Vancouver.

The meeting sort of morphed into an agnostic meeting. It began as a Step meeting that attracted a number of guys who were like-minded and at one point they all realized, “Wow, we are all agnostics and atheists!” There wasn’t a god-believing person in the room.

At this time Denis read about the agnostic groups in Toronto being booted out of Intergroup (you can read that here: Fight Over God Splits Toronto AA Groups) and he decided, along with the group, that this is where they were going to make their stand, this would be their “Waterloo”. So Denis registered the meeting with Vancouver Intergroup as “We Agnostics”.

He also helped start a Tuesday night meeting called “Sober Agnostics”. Its founding meeting was on May 7, 2013, and it is still going strong.

It too was registered with Central Office and on the Vancouver AA meeting list.

But that’s when the problem arose in Vancouver. The groups were not only originally accepted but they were welcomed. The person at Central Office said “Fantastic! It’s time we had one of these meetings in Vancouver”, and then a short time later that individual was let go or fired and then the meetings were stricken from the list.

This did not go well with some people. I personally wanted to lash out, however, Denis calmly stood his ground and as a result of that agnostic AA is flourishing in Vancouver today, thanks to our elder statesman. Denis was the poster child of agnostic AA in Vancouver.

When he found AA Agnostica it was like, “Wow, there is the family I have been looking for. We were lost and now we have found each other…” The wonderful articles. The great comments.

About two years ago Denis was told that a shadow was seen on his lungs. After many tests and doctor appointments, two months ago he was told he had stage 4 lung cancer. With treatment he should live a little over a year.

Never one to duck the challenge, he simply said “it is what it is”, “let’s fight this to the end”, and with good humor and integrity he marched forward.

On April 1/16 he awoke like any other day, drove to his favorite coffee shop to meet with his friends. Feeling a bit funny he decided to go home to lie down and rest, and that is where he died three hours later.

On a personal note, Denis and I spoke the same language. It is the language of someone who has been where you are. It is in the eyes, the eyes of a true friend and confidant. Without words so much is said.

It is in the silence that I heard his voice, “don’t drink and go to meetings”, which is still working today, some 32 years later.

Thank you Denis, you helped me save my life and the life of my family. I will forever be grateful.

Your friend,
Dan V.

Roger’s Footnote: Denis and I were great pals. We talked on the phone at least once a week. If he were in Toronto, we would get together at a meeting and for dinner. We were both in Santa Monica for the convention. In January, he used his points to cover the cost of my flight to Vancouver so that he, Dan and I could go down to Olympia, Washington, together for the Widening Our Gateway agnostic AA conference. What a great time the three of us had together.

It was on the way to Olympia that we stopped at one of his favourite diners, the Argo Cafe, and that’s where I took the above photo of Denis.

Denis was determined to live each and every remaining day as fully as possible, one day and one moment at time. Sounds like something he might have learned in AA. Another friend of his, Mike D, phoned me the day he died. He reported that Denis had told him that the previous day had been one of the best days of his life. I am overwhelmed by sadness every time I think of Denis, but that thought makes me smile, makes me happy.

For a PDF of this article, click here: In Memory of Denis.

The post In Memory of Denis first appeared on AA Agnostica.